In this episode of Dealer Talk, join hosts Herb and Charity as they welcome Jim Ziegler, the owner of Ziegler SuperSystems. They discuss the challenges dealerships face in inventory management and the future of the automotive industry.
Episode Highlights:
1. What is the deal with manufacturers in 2023?
2. What about the forecast after Q2?
3. The strategy to follow once units are back in stock. TRAIN YOUR SALES STAFF!
4. Even in these times, not all customers prefer buying cars online!
5. Never trust figures supplied by a vendor about the vendor! Do we still need TV publicity?
6. Always be part of the community; it is good business!
7. What can we expect next year?
📞 Connect:
Email: [email protected]
Twitter: JimZiegler
Vendor Partners:
👓 Foureyes.io
🚙 FIXEDOPS DIGITAL
🎥 Covideo
📞 Calldrip
📱 RunMyLease
⏰Highlights:
00:00 Introduction
10:00 What is the deal with manufacturers in 2023?
20:00 The strategy to follow when units are back in stock. TRAIN YOUR SALES STAFF!
30:00 Even on these times, not all customers prefer buying cars online!
40:00 Never trust figures supplied by a vendor about the vendor! Do we still need TV publicity?
50:00 What can we expect next year?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
similar hairstyles.
Herb Anderson:
There you go, we’re going to St.
Charity:
So
Herb Anderson:
Barber’s shop.
Charity:
I better go shave my head really quickly.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Oh yeah, I gotta look. Oh, I don’t
Charity:
Can you
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
wanna
Charity:
hear me,
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
have any
Charity:
Herb?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
of that action. I got all gray here. You’re starting to get a little of that little skunk action there, you know? Ha ha ha ha ha.
Herb Anderson:
Yeah,
Charity:
I’m gonna go.
Herb Anderson:
I’m getting there, man. I’m getting there. Awesome, man. Super excited. So as usual, no agenda. Let’s just kick it off and
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Just
Herb Anderson:
we’ll
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
kick
Herb Anderson:
see where
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
it
Herb Anderson:
it
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
off.
Herb Anderson:
goes.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I was interviewed by CBT News yesterday. I went by the studio first time, doing studio interviews since I’ve had the cancer, you know, and travel a little bit. Yeah, there’s a lot of good things happening.
Herb Anderson:
Right on, right on. How was it being in there?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
How was CBT? How
Herb Anderson:
Yeah.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
did it go? It went really, really well. We talked about current events in the car business. And, you know, of course I filtered in my zigglerisms and my, you know, my opinions. You know,
Herb Anderson:
Right on.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
a little, you know, I’m sort of known to be off the wall.
Herb Anderson:
Yeah. Alrighty. Okay. So one, two, three,
Charity:
Can
Herb Anderson:
let’s
Charity:
you
Herb Anderson:
go.
Charity:
hear me?
Herb Anderson:
What up? Welcome to another
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Yes,
Herb Anderson:
episode
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
absolutely.
Herb Anderson:
of the dealer talk podcast. This is your host Herb Anderson. Thank you so much for tuning in. I have a fantastic guest today. It’s been on the show before. Um, and we couldn’t wait to have them back. Um, none other than Mr.
Herb Anderson:
How are you?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Oh, I’m having the best day of my entire life and now I’m here with you and Charity Inn. It’s going fantastically well.
Herb Anderson:
Right on, right on. Yep, let’s check in with our co-host too. Charity, what’s going on, how you doing? It’s recording.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I’ve got the red recording light on mine. Okay, it doesn’t like you.
Herb Anderson:
I’m sorry.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Okay,
Herb Anderson:
technical
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
and then
Herb Anderson:
difficulties.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Herb came in and out. He crashed and he’s going in and out of focus over there.
Herb Anderson:
Yeah, you’re going to see that the because we have multiple people on here, you’re going to see the but it’s recording. I got it on low data mode. So.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
She’s coming back on, I’m sure. There she is.
Herb Anderson:
Do you want to leave and come back? Jim, can you hear me?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I’ve got great volume on all three of us. Let’s say I’m looking at my microphone volume, it’s going into the yellow, so it’s perfect. There you go. That’s why we pre-record these so we can edit them.
Herb Anderson:
Yes.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Excuse me? Hmm
Charity:
Now
Herb Anderson:
Thank
Charity:
it
Herb Anderson:
you.
Charity:
says it’s recording, I don’t have a clue.
Herb Anderson:
It says you’re recording. I see
Charity:
I know,
Herb Anderson:
you.
Charity:
I know.
Herb Anderson:
I’ve seen
Charity:
It
Herb Anderson:
it recording.
Charity:
said not recording and then it said my browser was inhibiting it, but then now it’s not and I did nothing. So.
Herb Anderson:
All righty, technology. Let’s roll. Okay. All right, let’s check in with our co-host as well. Cherry DeAnn, what’s going on? How you doing?
Charity:
What’s up? Happy podcast day.
Herb Anderson:
Sherry, are you okay?
Charity:
I’m good.
Herb Anderson:
Did you not hear my question?
Charity:
I did, you.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
He froze on us.
Herb Anderson:
Yeah.
Charity:
I froze or you guys froze?
Herb Anderson:
You’re messing up the vibe here. What’s going
Charity:
I’m
Herb Anderson:
on with
Charity:
sorry!
Herb Anderson:
your tech?
Charity:
It’s the new computer, dammit.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Oh, I’ll tell you about the time I got knocked out of the chair by lightning.
Herb Anderson:
Please tell us
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
OK, I
Herb Anderson:
if
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
was
Herb Anderson:
it’s a
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I was with I had the guys from dealer teamwork on Sean and let’s see who was with him, Eric Milch. So I had Eric Milch and Sean and Sean Stapleton on and I’m and we had we had a storm and Atlanta has tremendous lightning storms. So we got this lightning storm happening and it was crackling a little bit. And then all of a sudden, I flew back in the chair and hit the wall behind me. and fell on the floor. Lightning came through. I was wearing headsets. And it came through my headsets and just knocked me completely out of the chair, knocked me off the air. Those guys were still on the air. Restream was still broadcasting them. But
Herb Anderson:
That’s hilarious.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
it wasn’t enough to hospitalize me, but I was certainly, my head was burned. I mean, it was funny.
Herb Anderson:
But you remember feeling something like you felt a shock or?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I was knocked out.
Herb Anderson:
Oh wow.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I
Herb Anderson:
That’s
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
was unconscious
Herb Anderson:
great.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
for a second.
Herb Anderson:
Wow
Charity:
What was there a big storm?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
A big storm, yeah,
Herb Anderson:
Thank you.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
absolutely. It hit the house and got
Herb Anderson:
Thank you.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
into electrical circuitry and the lightning just amplified the electricity some. I don’t know how to explain it. My electrician, we put… big surge protectors in the next day.
Charity:
Ha ha ha.
Herb Anderson:
Wow.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Mammoth surge protectors.
Charity:
I used to live in South Dakota.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I’m sorry.
Charity:
And the storms in the Midwest can get kind of crazy.
Herb Anderson:
I’m sorry!
Charity:
Ha ha ha. I love South Dakota, but.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I have been the keynote speaker for the Dakota Dealers Association convention. They joined the North and South have a joint convention for auto dealers. I’ve been their keynote speaker, I don’t know, maybe three times.
Herb Anderson:
Go on.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
And it’s a small convention, it’s sort of like a church picnic, you know? I think they bring their own food, you know?
Herb Anderson:
right on. Okay, so we kicked things off with an intro, but we’ve already done that. And everybody knows who our guest is anyways. So how about we just talk, we just kick it off at the 50,000 and tell us what you’re, what you’re predicting man for 2023. What do you, what, what does it look like?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
2023 is going to be a mishmash of everything we’ve seen for the last year. The manufacturers, all their plans are crashing hard. The EVs are falling off. Dealers have got EVs on their lot that they can’t sell for the first time. Even Ford Motor Company that has really made a big push on EVs. EVs isn’t working out the way they thought it was. You know, customer direct, that’s not working either. The customers are actually looking at inventory on the ground. You know, Herb, the industry has normalized. We’ve
Herb Anderson:
Mm-hmm.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
got rebates. We’ve got leasing is returning. I saw manufacturers advertising leasing this week, which is a really smart move. And I don’t ever credit the manufacturers for doing a lot of smart things, but that Yeah.
Herb Anderson:
You mean because of the interest rate situation?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Well, the interest rate situation and the last couple of years, we’ve been charging five, $10,000 over sticker, $20,000 over MSRP. And that’s coming back to roost right now, because what we’re seeing in 2023 into 2024 is a credit crisis. And I predicted this in my written articles in the magazines and several speeches I’ve done and certainly in my blogs and posts online. You know, it was bound to happen. We’ve been selling cars for 10,000, 20,000 over sticker. Defaults are at the highest rate since 2007.
Herb Anderson:
Yeah.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Repos are on the rise. And not only are repos, they’re delinquencies of mirrored repossessions. And these are people that had previously good credit. unlike what we’ve experienced in the past when people with poor credit continue to have poor credit. No, this is people that previously had good credit and we ruined their credit selling them 20,000 over sticker, 10,000 over sticker. We were slapping high fives and we were all proud
Herb Anderson:
Yeah.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
of ourselves. And all of a sudden, what did we do to ourselves? We killed the goose.
Herb Anderson:
Yeah.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
And now the banks are withdrawing, especially the subprime banks. The subprime banks, we’ve had enough. You know, Santander is still in business, but they’ve tightened up tremendously. Wells Fargo is pulled out of the prime and subprime venues, and everybody’s pulling back. And with interest rates climbing six, seven, eight percent. And every tier level is up. So leasing is a very smart move for the manufacturers right now, even if they have to subsidize the leases.
Herb Anderson:
How long do you think because there’s the you know, I’ve talked about it on the show before but you know, there’s this there’s this You know, we’ve kind of robbed the future a little bit I think right when it during
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Well, wait a minute, what do you mean by that Herb? Explain the future.
Herb Anderson:
Well, I think that we pushed in deals during COVID that were deals that were going to happen later on and we just got them in because people were in better quote unquote temporary financial situations or whatever.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I disagree with that.
Herb Anderson:
No, no, that’s fine.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I hate to counterattack the host.
Herb Anderson:
No, no, no worries. Let’s do it.
Charity:
Do it.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
The sales haven’t been that great during COVID. Now, after COVID, of course, we had inventory shortages and we didn’t have the cars to sell. So the fact that we robbed the future, there’s a lot of pent up demand. popped up and we haven’t mentioned it so far in this podcast,
Herb Anderson:
Hmm.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
affordability. I owned nine Escalades and seven Corvettes and probably a dozen town cars before that, depending on what manufacturer I had a contract with. So I had nine Escalades all the way through 2010. That was… started the Escalade in 2000. So between 2000 and 2010, I had almost a new Escalade every year. The most I ever paid for, and I tricked them out, man, I put the entire wrapper package on every Escalade I bought. I had wheels and gold packages and dark windows. If they sold it, I bought it.
Herb Anderson:
Hahaha
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
The most I ever paid for an escalade was 60 grand in 2010. And now they’re tricking out over a hundred grand. Inflation hasn’t gone up that much.
Herb Anderson:
That much, right?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
No, the price of cars has dramatically outpaced inflation.
Charity:
Hmm
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
And to accelerate that, the manufacturers are not selling any basically equipped automobiles. They are loading up what they ship to the dealers. There is no entry-level cars in the market.
Herb Anderson:
But so.
Charity:
I did read an article that was saying that they were phasing out a lot of the entry level vehicles specifically so that they could increase the price of vehicles.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Of course, I mean, the manufacturers always talk about the customer experience and how they’re really looking out for the manufacturers have stuck it to the customers every turn. And I don’t care which manufacturers, the most consumer friendly manufacturers right now might be Hyundai and Toyota and Subaru. If I had to look and say that these people are behind the… behind the scenes, pull back the curtains, and you still got customer and dealer friends.
Herb Anderson:
Mm-hmm.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
And that’s the balance a manufacturer should have, dealer-friendly, customer-friendly. And Ford has always been not particularly customer-friendly, but there was a time that I thought that they were coming around to customer and dealer-friendly, but I don’t see that right now. So you’ve got to remember.
Herb Anderson:
Right, but…
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Yeah, go ahead.
Herb Anderson:
Like, what?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
When the… We’re gonna fight over this microphone.
Herb Anderson:
Yeah.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
No, when $7,500 rebates popped up on EVs, the manufacturers, Ford and General Motors that were big in the EV truck market, immediately raised their price of $7,500. So…
Herb Anderson:
Mm-hmm.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
In other words, they saw that dealers were selling cars 10,000 over sticker. And the manufacturer said that is unconscionable. The dealers are just criminal to charge, but they immediately raised their prices because they saw the dealers making that additional money and they wanted to move it to their side of the ledger.
Herb Anderson:
Sure. Yeah. So, but that’s kind of in line with what I mean. Like for example, if anybody that bought during that time, not everybody, but there’s a lot of people that are going to be screwed. They’re not going to be able to get out of that car, right?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Oh,
Herb Anderson:
And
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
we
Herb Anderson:
so…
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
didn’t do it to the cars, we perform weddings.
Herb Anderson:
Yeah, exactly. And so those folks are gonna have to pretty much go to term with their loans because they’re in such a, they’re in such a financial situation that how do you, you know what I mean? What
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Oh
Herb Anderson:
do
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Herb,
Herb Anderson:
you do?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
not just 20,000, 10,000 over sticker, but 84 months.
Herb Anderson:
Yeah, exactly.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
84 months. You ever see
Herb Anderson:
Yeah.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
the movie Home Alone?
Herb Anderson:
Ha ha!
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Terrible.
Herb Anderson:
Exactly. Exactly. So, but you know how we do man, like, I soon, you know, every year, it’s like, how do we get more? And so and when we say things like, well, dude, like, listen, look, what happened during COVID? Well, I don’t care. Figure it out.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Do people need all the technology things that they’re putting in the cars? Do they want these options? And the manufacturers, the greed factor, they’re subscription accessories. Get out of here.
Herb Anderson:
Yeah.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I mean, you want heated seats? We’ll turn them on for an extra $20 a month.
Herb Anderson:
Mantia.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
You’re going to rent me the heated seats that are already in the car. We,
Herb Anderson:
Oh yeah,
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
yeah.
Herb Anderson:
that stuff is coming, for
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Subscription
Herb Anderson:
sure.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
accessories. I mean,
Herb Anderson:
Yeah.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
get out of here. I mean, it used to be you bought a car, you owned everything in it.
Herb Anderson:
You don’t think that that’s going to be the way for profitability in the future? Like these over the, like, um, over the air updates.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Well, over the air updates is one thing, but over the air accessories, where they turn on accessories that are already built into the car.
Herb Anderson:
To the car, yeah.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
The heated seats, the heated steering wheels, even the radios. I mean, and it’s amazing what they can do over the air now. Ford just bought a program where they can harass people are delinquent on their payments.
Herb Anderson:
Ooh, what do you mean? I haven’t heard about that.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
They can turn off the radio, making an annoying sound come out of the dash.
Herb Anderson:
What?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
They can finally turn the car off, which we’ve been able to do for years, but now they’ve got all sorts of, they can harass the customers into making their payments.
Herb Anderson:
That’s crazy! Oh man, wow.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Yeah, yeah, that they get. And by the way, they’ve got the copyright on that. And they said, we’re not the patent, whatever it is. They said, we’re not going to use that. We just wanted to own it so other people could use it.
Herb Anderson:
Couldn’t use
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Get
Herb Anderson:
- Ha
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
out
Herb Anderson:
ha
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
of here.
Herb Anderson:
ha ha ha ha.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
That was that that that was in the press release. We just wanted to own it so nobody else could use it against their customers, because we are the customer. When it was, it was exposed that they owned that copy.
Herb Anderson:
So Jim, what are you predicting for this year? Do you think this is going to be a plus year for most dealers or do you think that we, you know, the end of like a lot of people that I’ve talked to think that the end of the Q2 will be the last quarter where there’s some gains and then it’s gonna get really tight for the rest
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Well,
Herb Anderson:
of
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
that
Herb Anderson:
this year
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
is,
Herb Anderson:
and the rest of next year.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I don’t agree with most forecasters in the industry. I’ve got the most accurate trait of forecast record or predictions record. You know, I
Herb Anderson:
Mm-hmm.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
am the king of forecasters and frost-nosticators in the industry. And a lot of like granolators out there are dancing around Stonehenge wearing their white robes and shit.
Herb Anderson:
I’m going to go to bed.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Yeah, you know the true believers but The truth the matter is yeah, it is going to slow down. I’ll agree with most most forecasters We’re gonna see a slowing and and we would have seen a slowing anyway her
Herb Anderson:
Mm-hmm.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
There are only There are only like 210 million licensed drivers in the United States 210 million And when you start selling 16, 17 million new units a year and 40,000, 45,000 used units and 60,000 and 70,000 and you’re sticking these people in 84-month loans that are upside down for at least six years,
Herb Anderson:
Yeah.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
there’s going to come a point where you reach what I call market saturation.
Herb Anderson:
Mm-hmm.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Everybody that wants one’s got one, and there’s not that many 18-year-olds turning 19. All of a sudden, the market is saturated, and then we see a slowdown. And that slowdown is we’re due for it. If
Herb Anderson:
Yeah.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
all the economic factors were correct, we are due for a slowdown. Just mathematically. You know, you can’t cram 60 to 70 million vehicles a year into a 200 million licensed drivers. You can’t keep cramming that into them and expect not to reach saturation.
Herb Anderson:
for sure. The other thing that you mentioned right now that I wanted to kind of get your feedback on because I agree. I think that one of the big differentiators, let’s say to the 08 and 09 for us is back then there was surpluses of inventory and no credit, right? I mean, it was really bad, but now we have people, we don’t have cars still. I mean, things are coming back for sure, but there’s still some deficiencies.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Certain manufacturers have inventory. Nissan
Herb Anderson:
Yeah.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
got ahead of the curve. Their dealers
Herb Anderson:
Mm-hmm.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
got cars on the ground.
Herb Anderson:
Yeah, I know there’s some manufacturers that do, but my point is that there are people, I’ve, you know, like some of the information that’s out there, and just my personal opinion, is I think that, to your point, I think that there’s some customers that did not transact and said, no, I’m not, I wanna wait for the car, I wanna wait to see what happens or whatever. And so I think that there’s that demand for new cars in particular that, you know, there’s still some gains to be had. Do you agree and if you do, what do you think dealers should be doing now to prep for that as that inventory starts trickling into some of these manufacturers that haven’t benefited like Nissan or Chrysler that do have a little bit more stock on the ground, so to speak.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Well, first of all, I have a reputation for growing dealers to the big numbers. And the one way that I’ve always grown dealerships to the maximum numbers that that dealership is capable of doing. 100 units to 500, from 500 to start to a thousand.
Herb Anderson:
Are you
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I’ve
Herb Anderson:
talking
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
created,
Herb Anderson:
new, used,
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
talking
Herb Anderson:
collectively?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
all units,
Herb Anderson:
Collectively.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
all units sales, total sales. I’ve taken a lot of, I’ve probably been involved in making more dealers go to a thousand units than anybody in the industry as far as an outside consultant. You know, and, You know, there’s a lot of general managers that have done that in one or two locations, but I’ve done it in a lot of locations because, you know, through the years, and I’ve got that track record, it’s documented. And one way you grow a dealership to the big numbers is you act like you’re already doing it. And dealers don’t get that. Every, every dealer that is trying to grow a big business wants to sneak up on the numbers and gradually grow the numbers.
Herb Anderson:
But when you say that, Jim, you talk about you start stocking in that way, you start hiring in that way.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
You start stocking the units on the ground. You start advertising as if you were already with a budget and with a different strategy that you’re already selling 1,000 units. Now the key word is realistically. First of all, you’ve got to do a… a survey of the dealership, what is this dealership realistically capable of selling? What’s our market? What competition? What traffic is available? What’s the population? You know, you have to look at all of the factors. You’re not going to go to Mayberry and create a thousand-unit dealership, although that has been done. The internet has leveled the playing field.
Herb Anderson:
Well, I think about Glenn Lundy’s situation in his market was like 9,000 people and he went from 100 cars to what was it? A thousand cars or something like that.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Well, yeah, the dealership did.
Herb Anderson:
Yeah.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Yeah.
Herb Anderson:
Yeah.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Yeah. You got to give the dealer some credit with it. I know Glenn and I are friendly, but still in all, Glenn didn’t do all that by himself. And yeah,
Herb Anderson:
Sure,
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
the
Herb Anderson:
sure, but I’m just
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
dealership
Herb Anderson:
saying
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
did. Yeah.
Herb Anderson:
the capacity is there, right?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
The capacity is there and that was expanding your market area. I love a small dealership on the outskirts of a major metro because I can come in under the radar screen and steal business like stealth marketing.
Herb Anderson:
Haha.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
They don’t even know what hit them.
Herb Anderson:
Yeah.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
We’re coming in under the radar screen and there are ways to do that. But the point is our sales staffs today are woefully under trained.
Herb Anderson:
Hmm, oh
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Woefully
Herb Anderson:
that’s no
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
under
Herb Anderson:
question.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
trained. The sales departments, the F&I departments, and they’ve forgotten how to sell and if you know, because let’s face it, we had a pandemic and then we had an inventory shortage where you could sell virtually every car on the ground for 10,000 over sticker. and you didn’t need any particular sales skills. And
Herb Anderson:
Right.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
dealers
Herb Anderson:
Yeah, we were order taken.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
didn’t invest in training. When they did invest in training, they invested in bad training.
Herb Anderson:
Yes.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
The point is they forgot how to negotiate. Whether you were even a one price dealership negotiates to some extent. There is no true one price dealership. I can go to any one price dealership and show you. Even when Saturn was, I met with the vice presidents that were in charge of Saturn. And they said, we don’t negotiate. I said, well, what do you do with a trade in? I mean,
Herb Anderson:
Mm-hmm.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
what do you do if, well, we, and here was the word they use, I swear. They said, well, we sometimes wiggle on the trade. You wiggle on the trade,
Herb Anderson:
So what
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
you
Herb Anderson:
do you
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
negotiate.
Herb Anderson:
call that man? Come on now!
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
You wiggle on the trade, get out of here.
Herb Anderson:
That’s hilarious.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Everybody needs to know how to negotiate. And they don’t know how to do that. The FNI managers don’t know how to work the banks intelligently. They want to hammer the deals into the banks. They don’t know how to talk to a credit supervisor. They don’t know how to structure a deal intelligently to get it approved. And that’s a skill we really need to have right now with the banks pulling back into marketplace. You know, all the major banks aren’t getting out, but they are certainly tightening up on the credit standards.
Herb Anderson:
Oh yeah, for sure, for sure. But I definitely want to talk about that, especially with you because of your finance background, but you said something right now that I want to expand on and that’s a bad training, right? How does, how does somebody, how does it, and this, this may sound like a dumb question, but how does a general manager or a GSM, how do they spot bad training? Because sometimes that can be disguised
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Well, first
Herb Anderson:
as.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
of all, check out the trainer.
Herb Anderson:
Hmm
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
You know, I mean, you know, check out the trainer and the history of the trainer. I mean, my resume is published on my website. There’s never a need to lie, cheat, sneak, deceive, and I don’t want to mention any specific people, but there’s never a need to lie, cheat, sneak, deceive, or do any criminal tactics to sell cars. And, you know, check me out. I check out pretty good.
Herb Anderson:
Yeah.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Because I have kept a clean reputation through the years. I’ve always, I’ve done high numbers, but I always did it the correct way. Honorably, ethically, legally compliant. You know, you don’t need to cheat, steal, misrepresent. You know, none of that. And
Herb Anderson:
Has that guy an easier gym with times, with the times that we are now, or more difficult? Because a lot of times I hear, well, I don’t know, or I wasn’t trained the right way or whatever. And I’m like, dude, come
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Legal
Herb Anderson:
on.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
compliance, I have spoken at NADA conventions on legal compliance. It’s been more than probably 12 years since I last spoke on legal compliance at a convention, but I am a layman expert on legal compliance in the car business. And the reason I’m a layman expert is because I study my profession as surely as if I were studying for a master’s degree. in any other profession. And I study my profession. I mean, I spend a lot of time. And yeah, I study what everybody else is doing. I study what other people are teaching. When I drove into Atlanta in 1982, I sought out role models, mentors, people that were doing it the best way. And I studied what they were doing. And… I have read every document, every book I could lay hands on on how to do the business in the car business. You know, I’ve been in the business 48 years.
Herb Anderson:
Yeah. Wow, see, I don’t know, man. When I have these conversations and people say things like, well, I was trained badly. I didn’t know what I was doing. It’s like, I’m always like, dude, seriously, come on. You know what you’re doing is wrong and you made the decision to stay there, whether it be because of the money or whatever. I don’t know,
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Well, you
Herb Anderson:
but.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
know, the truth of the matter is, Herb, 25 years ago, what we were doing would be illegal today, not because it was bad or because the attention was bad, but the laws have tightened up.
Herb Anderson:
have changed,
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
And
Herb Anderson:
right?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I have moved with that. You know, I mean, my God. The old four square is still the best way to sell cars, but it has been abused. And
Herb Anderson:
You think
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
so, yeah,
Herb Anderson:
so?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I think it is, first of all, there’s only four elements in the car sale, the price, the trade, the down payment and the payment, and the interest rate for the fifth term. But how you disclose that during the negotiation, that separates the… That separates all of us.
Herb Anderson:
Okay. So in your experience, would you say that like the, and I think we talked about this in our, in our previous podcast, but I want to bring it up again, because it’s one that I always debate and that’s the steps to the sale. Do you think that those are relevant in the digital, digitally fast paced
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Absolutely.
Herb Anderson:
advanced world?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Everybody
Herb Anderson:
But don’t you think
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
has
Herb Anderson:
that they
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
to
Herb Anderson:
need
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
have
Herb Anderson:
to change
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
a road
Herb Anderson:
a little
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
to
Herb Anderson:
bit?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
the sale. Wait a second. Let me finish that sentence. The road to the sale is you have to have a road to the sale in every dealership. Now we’ve inserted technology into it, but the road to the sale didn’t die. It just transformed. You still got to meet and greet the customer somewhere. You still have to establish a relationship somewhere. You
Herb Anderson:
Mm-hmm.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
know, we can greet the customer, establish common ground, select a vehicle. Okay, so they pre-selected a vehicle. Thank goodness technology did that for us. Okay, select a vehicle, present the vehicle. Okay, they watched a video or we did a walk around and you know, however the vehicle was presented, it still was. So all the steps in the sale are still there. Technology took over some of them, but a lot of customers are not buying the car online. That never happened. As a matter of fact, when digital retailing came in, everybody was cheering for digital retailing. That’s that bunch of people, white robes dancing around, stoners, Stonehenge. You know, all of a sudden Tesla is selling cars online, Carvana is selling cars online. That really worked well during the pandemic, and it worked somewhat well during the inventory shortage. But all of a sudden, all these people, Darwin, Prodigy, Freaking Tech, all these different people were born, these digital retailers. And by the way, I’m a believer that you have to have a digital retail vendor. I’m not saying you don’t hire these people, but it didn’t work out the way they planned it
Herb Anderson:
What
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
because it gets
Herb Anderson:
you mean on
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
too.
Herb Anderson:
your website, you should have a digital retailing experience?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
You have to have all modalities of buying a car. Any way the customer wants to buy
Herb Anderson:
wants
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
the car,
Herb Anderson:
to.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
but the
Herb Anderson:
Yeah.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
very minimal number of customers are buying a car online. Every dealer’s got the ability to do that.
Herb Anderson:
But
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Every dealer has
Herb Anderson:
we
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
the ability
Herb Anderson:
have
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
to do that.
Herb Anderson:
Jim, like back in 2000 when I was at the dealership, they were shipping cars all over the place. They just didn’t promote it.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
And
Herb Anderson:
You know what I mean?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
so were we, but the point is, customers aren’t playing the game. They aren’t going along with it. Customers are still physically come into the dealership. They will go
Herb Anderson:
Sure.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
so far online. I went to the doctor this morning. I had surgery this morning. And
Herb Anderson:
Thanks
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
minor
Herb Anderson:
for making the
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
back.
Herb Anderson:
podcast, man. Are you okay?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Yeah, minor back surgery. They burned some nerves in my back. I have a lot of weightlifting injuries from when I was a little younger.
Herb Anderson:
Oh.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Yeah. I’ve got a lot of weightlifting injuries that caused me to have some problems today. So anyway, um, people go so far as to buy a car. I, I filled out all my paperwork in advance to go to the doctor this morning. I was on the, I was on the table for about two or three hours this morning. You know, and. I was complete anesthesia, but I feel that all people will fill out the paperwork in advance, but they aren’t they aren’t contracting online.
Herb Anderson:
Mm-hmm.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
They are not watching the videos. All these all these companies put these videos up video walk arounds video service contracts. Guess what? People aren’t watching that crap.
Herb Anderson:
Yeah, no.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
They’re not watching it. I mean, no matter. And if somebody tells you they are, they’re lying to you.
Herb Anderson:
Exactly.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
So people are still, and here’s the thing, lead providers. That is a dying industry.
Herb Anderson:
I’m sorry.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Nobody is filling out the forms. Nobody is, you know, I’m sorry, cars.com, AutoTrader, CarGurus. I’m sorry. I view you, my opinion, I think I said opinion, that’s some legal stuff. But anyway,
Herb Anderson:
Ha
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
my
Herb Anderson:
ha!
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
opinion, my opinion is you are a dying industry, cars.com, AutoTrader, CarGurus. Dealers are selling cars off their website. The website is still the biggest traffic generator. Dealers are buying SEO. They’re buying Facebook advertising. They’re buying social media. They’re buying paper clicks. They don’t need the lead providers anymore and that has leveled the playing field. Excuse
Herb Anderson:
Yeah,
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
me,
Herb Anderson:
for sure.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
lead providers, you are sinking down in the tar pits, eating your… less brown shriveled leaves off the trees. Excuse me, you’re extinct. Because people are walking in the dealerships and they’re not contacting the dealership first. There is a large percentage of customers walking in the dealership.
Herb Anderson:
They just walk in?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
They’ve been on the website, but they didn’t contact the BDC, they didn’t call the dealership, they just showed up. And there’s where the road to the sale needs to come in. That’s where the old school road to the sale kicks in. So there are different modalities that customers use to buy a car. Some customers will buy the car totally online. They will totally transact on Darwin, Prodigy, or Prodigy, I think it’s a
Herb Anderson:
Whatever
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
rough word.
Herb Anderson:
you have. Yeah, sure
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Whatever you have. So you
Herb Anderson:
And for
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
need
Herb Anderson:
certain
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
to…
Herb Anderson:
cars, for certain cars, it makes sense. Like a very, a luxury car, you know, like a Ferrari or something like that. I get it.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I don’t mind.
Herb Anderson:
Yeah, you buy it online, right? A new car might make sense too, because I mean, I can test drive it anywhere and I know that I’m gonna like the car or whatever, but used cars, come on.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Oh, you
Herb Anderson:
Like.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
got to go look at that used car. You got to see, you know, I’m gonna go light and see if there’s bird nests growing under the tires, you know?
Herb Anderson:
Right.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I’m gonna…
Herb Anderson:
I mean, and then they talk about Carvana and stuff. And yeah, but yeah, they sold some cars, no question. But A, is that customer gonna buy another car from them if they’re even around? And B, look at the reviews. The reviews are terrible, right?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Well, those people
Herb Anderson:
So,
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
are criminals. I think.
Herb Anderson:
yeah, I mean.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
My opinion again, that was an opinion.
Herb Anderson:
You said it.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I think those people are criminals. They might not be criminals. I just said that based on the fact that I have an IQ higher than a snail. But anyway. Yeah.
Herb Anderson:
Oh, that’s funny. So, yeah, and as far as lead providers, I totally agree, man, I like that. And the more we continue to do the practices that we do internally at our dealerships, the less people are gonna interact with those platforms.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Exactly.
Herb Anderson:
But
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
You know.
Herb Anderson:
I mean, they have some value because people do go at least to look at cars. So I get it from that perspective, but if we’re counting leads, that’s a very ineffective way. It’s the laziest way to measure marketing efforts, in my opinion, at your dealership.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I would think, just there are so many metrics that people use that are false soundings. You know, I don’t, the measurement is ROI. The measurement is rate of travel. I mean, excuse me, Google is the only measurement.
Herb Anderson:
Hmm.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Excuse me. I
Herb Anderson:
Yeah,
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
got
Herb Anderson:
so
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Bing.
Herb Anderson:
what I tell dealers when we’re consulting is I remember my broadcast days. When we used to go and sit and talk to an agency or a customer about media buys, we would always talk in percentage of share. Hey, what percentage of share do I have in audience? And then I would expect that in budget, right? Why don’t we do that in the car business? It’s a very simple thing. Like if I’m paying, if auto trader is 2% of my budget, I should expect to get 2% of the leads. I don’t care about anything else. I don’t care. Auto trader doesn’t sell cars. Auto trader doesn’t set appointments. They certainly don’t hold gross on my cars. It’s just comical when these raps talk to me about, well, yeah, but you make more money on auto. No, I don’t. I just buy the car and I put it on
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Who
Herb Anderson:
your platform.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
told
Herb Anderson:
What
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
you
Herb Anderson:
do
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
that?
Herb Anderson:
you, like, you know what I mean? What do you have to do with how much gross profit I made on that car?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Oh, quite it. Just absolutely incredible. Some of the things. And then they, if you ever cancel one of these lead providers, the first thing they do is they come in with a big gun. They’re going to go get the supervisor to close you. This is a TO. They
Herb Anderson:
Yeah,
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
TO to a regional manager.
Herb Anderson:
that’s so true.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Regional manager comes in with a laptop and he or she wants to show you their attribution.
Herb Anderson:
Yes.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
We contributed to the sale. Quit it. I have a Ziegler saying, figures lie when liars figure.
Herb Anderson:
Hmm. Yeah.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
You can do a lot of things with attribution. Any dealer that falls for an attribution, the first thing you’ve got to remember is never trust figures supplied by a vendor about the vendor.
Herb Anderson:
about the vendor. Yeah, of course.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Why would you let a vendor show you figures that they brought you about them or
Herb Anderson:
themselves.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
a company they hired?
Herb Anderson:
Yeah, that’s so true.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Well, we hired this company to… you hired a company, okay, I’m sure they came back with some bad results for you.
Herb Anderson:
Right. Yeah, they say you suck, man. So.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
They said you suck. They said, sorry, Auditrader, they said to hirecars.com. Ha ha ha.
Herb Anderson:
That would be hilarious.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Yeah.
Herb Anderson:
That would be funny. So what do you think about traditional form of advertising? Do you think that there’s some room
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Oh
Herb Anderson:
there, that a lot of people left that to the side, and that might be a mistake?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
huge mistake.
Herb Anderson:
Mm-hmm.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
You got to remember online advertising targets in market buyers. Television advertising motivates people that weren’t even thinking about buying. They’re sitting there and all of a sudden they see a car and they say, you know, I’d love to have that. And they see that same commercial again. Well, I really would love to have that. About the fourth time. fourth or fifth impression, they’re getting dressed and heading over to the dealership. In Atlanta where I live, we’ve got two people that use a lot of television, Jim Schorke, and I’ve forgotten his general manager’s name, he calls himself the Bow Tie Guy, which I sort of disagree with, but it’s kind of humorous. The Bow Tie Guy, okay. But the Bow Tie Guy for Jim Schorke, and Linda Beaver. One of the most progressive dealers, I mean, their dealership is a benchmark for anything dealers are doing right. Linda Beaver is on television every single day. My wife and I, there’s one thing we never miss, wheel of fortune and jeopardy. And by the way, Jim Schorke, and Linda Beaver are saturated buying that program,
Herb Anderson:
They’re
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
both
Herb Anderson:
everywhere.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
of them. And I’m telling you, it works for them. They have high volume sales, they’re motivating people and they have repetition. See, I came out of radio, I was a disc jockey and I was a radio advertising salesperson long before I was in the car business.
Herb Anderson:
for our
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I
Herb Anderson:
business.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
set records in Jacksonville selling radio advertising. And I fully understand media. Now radio is not going to be nearly as effective as television or traditional. Only time radio is going to be effective is when you buy Morning Drive done live by the personality on the air.
Herb Anderson:
Yeah, like the DJs and stuff. Yeah, totally agree.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
The DJ on the air does morning drive. Afternoon drive is all over the map, but morning drive is very, very, very successful. And by
Herb Anderson:
Yeah, no,
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
the…
Herb Anderson:
I agree. And the thing too is that there’s a big hole in some of these markets because everybody went digital and they left those mediums completely open, right?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
There’s not a lot of radio advertising for car dealerships like there once was.
Herb Anderson:
Right.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
So what you need to do is buy the first half of the hour. Don’t buy the second half. Just give
Herb Anderson:
Yeah.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
me that backwards by the second half
Herb Anderson:
Second
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
of the
Herb Anderson:
half.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
hour. Don’t buy the first half of the hour.
Herb Anderson:
Yeah. And I was gonna say also too, commit. That’s the other thing. You don’t do radio for 30 days and see if it worked. You gotta do it consistently and just be like, hey, this is just a part of my marketing mix and we’re gonna do it forever. The message can change, but the consistency can never change.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
The other thing that works for radio, by the way, is the personality live on the lot. A
Herb Anderson:
Yeah,
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
remote
Herb Anderson:
you know,
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
broadcast.
Herb Anderson:
it’s funny you bring that up because I was just talking to somebody about this the other day. And it’s like that the live events are weird now, man, because they show up with their cell phone. There’s no like before they used to show up with the van, they put the speakers and balloons, and
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Yeah,
Herb Anderson:
all this.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I did. I’ve done hundreds of them, but personally performed them. And a live broadcast, you know, when you do a live broadcast, you got to have event advertising, event marketing,
Herb Anderson:
Yes.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
you know, to create an event on the life. The biggest crowd I ever put on a car lot was a professional wrestling match. We had
Herb Anderson:
Hahaha
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
10,000 people. 10,000 people on a car lot. I mean, the traffic jams in both directions.
Herb Anderson:
That’s
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
And
Herb Anderson:
awesome.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
we had some over the hill wrestlers that were well known, but were you actually put, you could hire them pretty cheap by the way. And we put a wrestling match up on the dealership. And we had a wrestling match at night on the dealership’s parking lot.
Herb Anderson:
That’s awesome. That’s a great idea. I love that.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Lin Hickey and Evel Knievel hanging over the lot in a conversion van with a rocket launcher, blowing up Chevys at Lin Hickey Dodge, they set the world record. I mean, Billy Fasillo had Robbie Knievel jumping over his dealership with a motorcycle. That’s the kind of thing that absolutely draws a… Anytime you can put 10,000 people in a parking lot… car dealership and I’ve done it several times. I’ve been to deal with shifts where we had a free bungee jump and people lined up to get the free bungee jump. I mean, you know, it was a crane like thing. It was wild. I actually did it. And all the promotions, you know, when you have magicians, free Coca-Cola was free, free hot dogs. flatbed truck with a country band and Elvis impersonator, man, you know, you’re going to draw a crowd.
Herb Anderson:
You will, yeah.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
People forgot how to do promotions.
Herb Anderson:
We exactly that’s exactly it. We forgot we’ve gotten away with that because of perhaps the specificity of data when you’re talking about digital. But then we complained that there’s no traffic in our stores. Well, you know, like if you’re relying only on digital, then yeah, you’re gonna move the unit, but you’re not gonna have a bunch of people there. They’re just gonna show up and they’re gonna buy the car and that’s it, right? I mean,
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Well, promotion isn’t necessarily to sell cars that day.
Herb Anderson:
Right, that’s what I mean. Like if you want activity in people and you want to create that, you know, feel of busyness and then you’re talking about what you said, promotion marketing. You can’t sit down with auto trader and be like, why don’t I have more foot traffic in my store? Like that’s, it’s just the wrong,
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I gotta tell
Herb Anderson:
we’re
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
you,
Herb Anderson:
talking about two different things.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I was consulting Mark Heights dealership in Norman, Oklahoma. Heights bought the dealership, the Chevy dealership at the height of the 2008 crash. I mean, he bought this dealership in 2008 and We got that dealership up to 850 units of and he had built an auditorium. Now picture this, he built an auditorium on the lot, like a little amphitheater for the community to use for community events. He had meeting rooms in the dealership big enough for the local Kiwanis and Rotary Clubs and free meeting space. And… He did all sorts of things for the community. He had a million gallon fish tank. I don’t know how many gallons, the whole wall of the dealership was a freshwater fish tank with big bass and big freshwater fish in it. I mean, the whole wall of the dealership was a fish tank. I mean, the dealership was so incredible. 850 units a month. Highly profitable, ethical, community oriented. The community could book the amphitheater. Guess what? General Motors made him sell the dealership because he wouldn’t remodel it to fit the General Motors Chevy standards.
Herb Anderson:
That’s crazy. Geez.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Honest to goodness, that’s a true story, Herb.
Herb Anderson:
Wow.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
They made this super successful dealership that was super involved in the community. They made him sell the dealership.
Herb Anderson:
That’s just terrible.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I got to tell you, there was a dealer, Bruce Butcher. They had Butcher’s Toyota Brun… Brunswick, Georgia, I think it was. Brunswick, Georgia, we put a car wash on the corner of his parking lot. I mean, we just put plumbing where water would squirt down on the cars, nothing fancy. And we allowed the cheerleaders and the Boy Scouts and the community clubs to use that car wash right on the corner of the lot. And then that was so successful, we took four cars off the front of the parking lot and made a concrete slab with picnic tables and an industrial strength barbecue pit. And we allowed community organizations to book the barbecue pit with a couple picnic tables and big industrial barbecue pit to have their barbecues. every Saturday the car washes on one end of the lot, the barbecue pit on the other end of the lot. We got cheerleaders out there with signs come into our car wash and the barbecue pit, there’s the Shriners out there with their barbecue raising funds for the Shriners. And I mean, we had the community flagging people onto our lot. It was incredible.
Herb Anderson:
Yeah, no, I can imagine. I mean, but those are the kind of things that those are the extra things that create differentiation. We talk about experience and all these things. Those are the things that create an experience that people can say, you know what? That’s a different thing. They’re doing things differently. And yeah, that’s super dope to see that, that creativity and execution on things like that.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Well, I’ve been involved in a lot of dealerships, Ed Bozarth in Denver, that did community-oriented things that just absolutely catapulted the dealership to the big numbers.
Herb Anderson:
Sure, yeah. And it shows that you make a good point, right? Because it shows the community that you’re involved and you care. And when, you know, that’s, I think that goes a long way. I mean, me personally as a consumer, I go to certain places in my local community because, you know, they have products that I want. And because I also feel like my money that goes to that business and that business does things with that money in the local community. And it just, it’s an incentive for people. to feel good about the purchase and where they’re spending their dollars and stuff. So I love stories like that.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Yeah, you don’t need to beat the public over the head to sell cars. I mean, you can, every one of the dealerships that got involved in the community, it pays rewards.
Herb Anderson:
It’s just good business. It’s good business.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I have in many dealerships, I always, when I’m consulting a dealership, one of the things I want them to do is hire what I call the community ambassador. Usually a woman, I mean, usually a woman, the profile would be 40, 50, even 60 years old to join all the community organizations and to be the ambassador for the dealership. in a community. You know, I’ve always, usually one of the profiles, and I’m giving away all my secrets here, but one of the
Herb Anderson:
Thank you, sir.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
things I really liked was a retired flight attendant. If I could get a retired flight attendant to go to work for a dealership that I was consulting and become the ambassador for the dealership. And she would join all the local organizations. She would get involved in any charity that wanted to do it, to donate the little league teams or whatever. She was the person. She was the one that booked the barbecue pit. She was the one that booked the car wash. She was the one that got the community involved with the dealership. That paid big dividends wherever we did that.
Herb Anderson:
Right on. Very cool.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
You know.
Herb Anderson:
So there you have it folks. There’s a little tip from the alpha dog himself.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Guess what? I’m back doing seminars again.
Herb Anderson:
When did you, did I read something that you did? No,
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I
Herb Anderson:
that
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
hope
Herb Anderson:
was about
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
you
Herb Anderson:
your,
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
did!
Herb Anderson:
no, it was about the university. You posted that you were teaching again.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Well, I teach general manager and F&I at Northwood University, which is the only four year university in the country with a major in automotive. A lot of dealers, sons and daughters and general managers, sons and daughters, and people in the automotive industry attend Northwood. It’s a really great experience. I teach a course every Wednesday and. for general manager, I’ve taught that course three times now and I teach the FNI course. Yeah, so, but I’m, Ben Keating, the 15th most profitable dealer in the country. I’ve been consulting him for 25 years. They use all my processes. It’s 15th most profitable dealership group in the country. They’re South Texas. He called me two months ago. He said, I want to… me to fly to South Texas and do a seminar. I said, I’m a cancer survivor. My immune system is not that hot. Obviously my back, you know, I can’t do that. He said, well, I’ll bring the managers to you. First he said, I’ll send a private jet. My wife said, no. So, okay, so he sent 60 managers to Atlanta Herb. 60,
Herb Anderson:
Oh wow.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
flew 60 managers. This is only a couple of weeks ago. It’s on my website. It’s on my Facebook page. You know, 60 managers to Atlanta. He rented the ballroom at the Marriott. He paid me a high five digit fee for a two day seminar. High five digits. He
Herb Anderson:
Wow.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
had banquets every night, two nights. He had sit down lunches and breakfast for all 60 of the guys. He rented all the AV, all the ballroom. He had more than $100,000 invested in a two-day seminar.
Herb Anderson:
Yeah, but how
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Be
Herb Anderson:
much
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
more
Herb Anderson:
value
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
safe.
Herb Anderson:
did his management get from that? That’s gonna last him a lifetime. You
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Dealers
Herb Anderson:
know, that’s…
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
invest in your people.
Herb Anderson:
Yeah, yeah,
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Invest
Herb Anderson:
I
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
in your people. So.
Herb Anderson:
mean like… And you know how those people must have felt? So super valued as employees, like that’s great.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
They’ve become true friends of mine through the years. These were managers. I’m not a sales trainer, I’m a management trainer.
Herb Anderson:
Right.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
I do train salespeople when I’m involved with the dealership, but I’m a management trainer. I teach sales management, general management, F&I. I’m doing F&I seminar in Atlanta, I’ve got one coming up. This inspired me to get back into it.
Herb Anderson:
Very cool. Right on. Well, let us know, and we can link it and help you spread the word. Try to.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Oh absolutely, July 13th, 14th. My website, ZieglerSuperSystems.com. ZieglerSuperSystems.com.
Herb Anderson:
We’ll
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Yeah.
Herb Anderson:
make sure to put some show note links in there as well.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
Would
Herb Anderson:
So
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
you do that for me? Thank
Herb Anderson:
absolutely,
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
you.
Herb Anderson:
spread the word. Hey, man, thank you so much for doing this again. I really appreciate it. This is awesome.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
You’ve
Herb Anderson:
It’s
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
become
Herb Anderson:
always good
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
a good
Herb Anderson:
to talk
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
friend.
Herb Anderson:
to you.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
You’ve become
Herb Anderson:
Yeah.
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
a good friend. I appreciate you.
Herb Anderson:
Yeah, likewise. Thank you so much for all your support. And we typically close things off with a question about the next five years, but you’ve already done that. So how about you just tell us what do you think? What do you think we can expect in the next year? And why?
Jim Ziegler, CSP, HSG:
The next year, we’re bordering on a recession right now. We’ve got to tighten up, get your processes in order. Herb mentioned the road to the sale. You’ve got to have a road to the sale. And the road to the sale will involve technology. You can’t be afraid of technology. Some of the older dealers, you don’t know where the on switch on your computer is. Excuse me. You’ve got to get involved in technology and you’ve got to re-evaluate all your vendors. The vendors that you have might be obsolete and archaic and you are really liking your representative. The representative is your personal relationship, not the company. Look at everything that’s new. Go to the conferences. Go to all the conferences and see all the vendors, the new emerging vendors and see what they’re offering. See what the new technologies are. That’s gonna get you ahead in the next year of Herb.
Herb Anderson:
Right on, there you have it folks, straight from the alpha dog himself. Thank you so much for doing this. We really, really appreciate it. Thank you for tuning in. That’s all the time that we have for today. And as usual, we’ll talk later. Hey man, thank you so much for doing this.
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