Buy Here Pay Here with NIADA

You are currently viewing Buy Here Pay Here with NIADA

“Competition makes everybody better. It forces everyone to step up their game and ultimately the consumer benefits.” -Herb Anderson. Join us for a conversation with NIADA’s President of the Board Scott Allen as we discuss the current and projected state of the Buy-Here-Pay-Here automotive space. Scott is sought after for his expertise and insight into the Independent Automobile industry as well as his small business acumen.

Vendor Partners






📞 Connect:


Instagram: @_niada


NIADA Dealer 20 Group


Twitter: @_niada


⏰ Highlights:

00:00 Introduction

6:50 Automotive News

10:00 Jury Duty

27:30 Scott Allen

35:00 NIADA Certified

44:00 Community Involvement

52:30 Next Five Years

Subscribe to My YouTube Channel

Follow the podcast here

Thank you for tuning in, and as usual, we will TALK later!

Send in a voice message
Support this podcast


Herbert Anderson (03:56.690)

What up? Welcome to another episode of the Dealer Talk podcast. This is your host, Herb Anderson. Thank you so much for tuning in. We got a great one today, folks. We’re talking to none other than Mr. Scott Allen, president of the board of NIADA. This is going to be a really, really interesting episode. So tune into the whole entire thing.

Herbert Anderson (04:26.650)

If you want video, go to YouTube, check out our YouTube channel, and you can see, you can put a name with the face and the voice. And yeah, so check it out. Let’s check in with our co-host, Ms. Charity. Yeah, what’s up Charity? Hi, I’m Charity.

Charity (04:27.389)

As opposed.

Charity (04:39.171)

and subscribe.

Charity (04:46.589)

What is that? Happy podcasting. How are you?

Herbert Anderson (04:49.650)

Yeah, indeed. And what did you say and subscribe to our YouTube channel?

Charity (04:55.609)

Yeah, subscribe to the YouTube channel.

Herbert Anderson (04:57.510)

subscribe to the YouTube channel. The subscriptions are getting there. I think we’re over a thousand now. We’re going to get to 2000 by the end of season eight. That’s the goal. So

Charity (05:00.710)

like us.

Charity (05:08.489)

I think it’s next.

Charity (05:12.409)

2000? That’s our goal at the end of season eight? Why don’t we get to like 5000?

Herbert Anderson (05:17.410)

No, but I mean, dude, that’s 100% growth. Like, dude, come on, you got to set achievable goals. See, that’s one of the problems in the automotive industry. Right? So we, it’s, you know, it’s just, we set these really, which is good. I mean, I’m not trying to downplay the importance of setting goals, but you got to get the wins, right? You got to set like the milestones. So you can’t say by the end of the season, we’re going to have a million subscribers.

Charity (05:29.877)

I’m gonna go get a shower.

Herbert Anderson (05:47.350)

subscribers. I mean, we’re a thousand. So, you know what I mean? But you know, I’m actually pretty happy with our subscription numbers because when you think about it, it’s a very niche podcast. I mean, if I got a thousand people in the automotive space tuning in, that’s pretty darn good. I’m cool with that. I mean, there’s what, 17,000 dealers. So, it’s not bad, you know?

Charity (05:48.869)

I didn’t say anything. I said 5,000.

Charity (06:15.969)

12,000 franchises.

Herbert Anderson (06:17.610)

Right, yeah, that’s what I mean.

Charity (06:20.969)

the same thing.

Herbert Anderson (06:21.950)

So anyway, subscribe to our YouTube channel. Damn it. Go right now. Stop whatever you’re doing. Go to YouTube and subscribe. That’s it. Yes. [?

Charity (06:28.596)


Charity (06:32.569)

Just do it. We all know that you’re subscribed to things you don’t even know that you’re subscribed to.

Herbert Anderson (06:39.630)

I mean, if you’re, if you’re, if you’re listening to the podcast on a regular basis, you might as well subscribe to the YouTube channel. Just saying.

Herbert Anderson (06:50.650)


Charity (06:50.939)

That’s our sales techniques right there.

Herbert Anderson (06:53.070)

Yeah. You know, it’s funny when I first started the podcast, I was like anti all the stuff. I was anti ads. I was anti subscription and all that, all the, all the vanity stuff. And asking for that was like a big one for me. Like, no, I’m not, I’m not, because I didn’t want to be like, my goal was never to be a podcaster. Like I still to this day, when I’m right here, that, that term or that title, it’s like, oh no.

Charity (07:04.873)

and asking.

Herbert Anderson (07:23.831)

It’s just not what I intended this to become right and so now here we are eight seasons later And I can’t say now that I’m not a podcaster because I Mean I bought that sign back there that says podcast so I’m invested

Charity (07:37.869)

Do you feel like you’re not a podcaster? I’m struggling with my words today.

Herbert Anderson (07:43.492)

I do now, I’ve gotten more used to that idea or that concept, probably in the last couple of seasons, but in the beginning, man, for the longest time, I struggled with that identity, I guess.

Charity (07:57.949)

imposter syndrome. That’s what that’s called. You know that?

Herbert Anderson (08:00.430)

Yeah, well, yes, I know what you’re talking about, but that’s when you start to do something and you don’t feel like you, like you can do it or yeah, exactly. And I knew from the gate that I had no clue what I was doing. I bought a book that was titled, Podcast for Dummies. You know what I mean? So…

Charity (08:10.329)

have any clue what you’re doing at all.

Charity (08:21.729)

This is actually, I don’t know if you remember this conversation, but it impacted me. We had a conversation once a couple of years ago when we first started collaborating, where I said, sometimes I just feel like I have no idea what I’m doing. And at some point somebody’s going to figure it out. And you said, we all feel like that charity.

Herbert Anderson (08:40.210)

Yeah. Yeah. So, but I never started the podcast to be a podcast or I started the podcast because I was having these conversations and I wanted to get that out there for other people to get the benefit that I was getting and it just kind of it’s evolved into what it is today. And so, but I can’t say now that I’m not a podcast or I mean, I’m, I’m invested in this thing. Like, you know what I mean? What makes you a podcaster because I’m on here.

Herbert Anderson (09:12.150)

Well, yeah, I got a co-host, so now it’s official. It’s like, there’s no turning back, folks.

Charity (09:22.719)

Did you start with a co-host?

Herbert Anderson (09:25.590)

I did shout out to Mr. Eric, the Viking Nelson. So, um, I don’t know. He probably doesn’t listen to the stuff anymore, but anyway, what, what, remember when we, when we had the team dinner and, um, his wife was at the, at the place.

Charity (09:44.369)


Herbert Anderson (09:45.550)

So that was…

Charity (09:48.329)

side story. We have this teen dinner and the waitress asks if we’re there for anything exciting and Herb convinces her that I’m turning 29.

Herbert Anderson (10:03.450)

Something like that, yeah.

Charity (10:07.203)


Charity (10:09.909)

That was like, and so they sang me happy birthday in everything everyone did. Everybody was, it was horrible. You know, I hate being sung happy birthday to on it, on my birthday.

Herbert Anderson (10:25.550)

So you’re welcome. Anyway, what do we got? What do we got going on? What’s cooking?

Charity (10:26.473)

So thanks for that one. Appreciate it.

Charity (10:33.509)

So I was looking up news. Yeah, today, yesterday, within the last 24 hours, Elon Musk’s trial for whether or not he had the lawsuit about securities fraud, he got Gino Atlas.

Herbert Anderson (10:54.033)


Herbert Anderson (10:57.610)

down now give me the scoop

Charity (10:59.689)

So I’m going to give you the very rough scoop. He put out a tweet in 2018.

Charity (11:11.829)

And it caused a huge upset in the stocks for Tesla. And a bunch of the shareholders got together and filed a class action lawsuit against him, saying that his tweets amounted to securities fraud. And obviously,

Herbert Anderson (11:37.310)

What way, hold on, do you know, I don’t know if you if you have the answer to this, but is is the idea here that whenever he tweets things, it messes with the price of the stock.

Charity (11:49.249)

Well, so they’re specifically talking about those tweets. But yeah, so the point of me bringing it up is that one of the headlines was lawyers for the, and this is automotive news, lawyers for the opposing sides were arguing to the judge whose question about whether it is metaphysically possible for a plaintiff to prove material misrepresentation.

Charity (12:21.969)

Can you, I’m gonna butcher this, can you misrepresent material, misrepresentation in a tweet? Because it’s just a tweet. So this goes back to like this whole thing.

Herbert Anderson (12:36.030)

Yeah, but right. But but but yes, the answer to that is yes, right? He’s the owner of the company. So what he’s what

Charity (12:43.449)

Well, I mean, that’s the entire premise of the lawsuit.

Herbert Anderson (12:48.351)

if, you know, John Smith types that, but he’s the owner. So of course, what he says is gonna, is gonna have some repercussions.

Charity (13:00.669)

Yeah, but they just found him not guilty.

Herbert Anderson (13:03.830)

Ooh, so they set precedents there.

Charity (13:07.729)

Yeah, but not only that. So like on just that level alone, that’s fascinating to me. This goes back to a conversation you and I had last season where we were talking about laws, like technology moving faster than the laws. This is the same, to me, it’s the same basket of complications, but it’s like,

Herbert Anderson (13:34.990)

Yeah, but it’s so it’s it’s very interesting because at the at the rapid pace that we’re evolving technologically speaking and with now with the internet and things of that nature, there’s going to be more and more instances where this is going to apply. And it’s cool that these things are being set now because later on when they talk about these cases, you know what I mean, like the precedents that said it will remember it because it happened during our during our lifetime.

Charity (13:39.469)


Charity (13:51.911)


Herbert Anderson (14:05.453)

So, I think that’s pretty cool.

Charity (14:06.029)

right. So here’s the other one, like just reading the news articles about this. And I was like, I am barely understanding what’s being said in these articles, right? Because it’s about securities and and the internet and all of these like big huge concepts and and complications. And I was thinking

Charity (14:38.949)

A jury is made up of a group of peers, a group of your peers, right? So who are the group of peers in a case against Elon Musk?

Charity (14:51.969)

because those were very complicated topics. So I’m thinking that the lawyers, not only did they have to argue their case and prove that their side was correct, but they had to literally teach the jury what the hell they were talking about in the process. So I’m thinking about that. I’m thinking about that. I’m thinking about that. I’m thinking about that. I’m thinking about that. I’m thinking about that.

Herbert Anderson (15:09.970)

But so is it? Was there a jury or is it just a judge trial?

Charity (15:13.369)

Yeah, it was a jury. Nine.

Herbert Anderson (15:15.711)


Herbert Anderson (15:18.530)

That was a, I’m sure that was a fun jury selection. Probably like Zuckerberg and Bill Gates. No, no, I know, but I’m just saying it would be pretty dope if you look at the jury list and it’s all like.

Charity (15:21.869)


Charity (15:26.989)

Well, but it’s just random. And then they have to go through and…

Charity (15:35.650)

I would love to see you who the jury who is on that journey because if it’s a group of your peers and they’re all like Stay at home moms. No diss on stay at home moms, but

Charity (15:50.169)

I’ve been through jury selection before, have you?

Herbert Anderson (15:51.450)

somebody is going to get cancelled.

Charity (15:54.889)

I used to be his day-on-mom. Um… Have you ever been through jury selection before?

Herbert Anderson (15:56.350)

Ha ha ha.

Herbert Anderson (15:58.970)

Can’t say those things, man. It’s 2023.

Herbert Anderson (16:05.010)

Yeah, but I, but I was going to say something that I know. Nope.

Charity (16:13.709)

You’ve never been through jury selection?

Herbert Anderson (16:14.710)

Yeah, I have, but I I’ve always wanted to be chosen and I just never I think my eagerness and excitement to be on there is what gets me the boot. Like, damn it. Passed on me again.

Charity (16:25.469)

Thank you. Thank you.

Herbert Anderson (16:36.850)

The last time I was called, the last time I was called, it was an interesting case. It was a murder case. And I was, oh man, I really wanted to be on it. And I was so, like I remember like they’re talking about the case and I kind of was smiling a little bit because I was like, dude, this could be really good. You know, I just want, but yeah, no, I think they noticed that. They were like, dude, get this guy out of here. Yeah

Charity (16:51.109)

What the fuck?

Herbert Anderson (17:05.034)

He’s a little too eager to be on the…

Charity (17:05.242)

Oh, that’s…

Charity (17:09.009)

I have been through it twice. It’s called voir dire, is what it’s called.

Charity (17:18.369)

Um, and I was, I had just had my, one of my kids and I was not that everybody wants to know this, but I was nursing him. And one of the other ladies that was in the jury selection, like made this big fuss about how she couldn’t do jury duty because she was a nursing or baby. And so the judge let her go and then he’s like, anybody else. And I was like,

Charity (17:45.949)

I didn’t want to say that I was because I wanted to be on the tour.

Charity (17:51.389)

He’s like, you can go too. And I’m like, no, I’m fine. I’m like, okay. And he made me go.

Herbert Anderson (17:58.110)

Yeah, it’s funny how that how that works right the people I don’t want to be on there Like they get picked. It’s like oh, you don’t want to be on here good you sir

Charity (18:11.849)

Yeah, so that’s the trick. If you don’t want to be on a journey, just look really eager.

Herbert Anderson (18:16.490)

I think the next time I get it, I’ll be like…

Herbert Anderson (18:22.630)

I’ll probably play that card. I’ll be like, no, I don’t want to be on here. Do not pick me. And then they’ll be like you, sir. And I’ll be like, yes. Yes. Yes.

Charity (18:27.451)


Charity (18:31.919)


Herbert Anderson (18:32.550)

Fooled you, I want to be on here.

Charity (18:58.229)

Yeah, that would have been an interesting case to be a part of. But the other thing that to like make it just a little bit serious, they were doing like they’re just throwing around all of the numbers that were, you know, all of the financial numbers, like $12 billion, I think is what the lawsuit was for, was $12 billion.

Herbert Anderson (19:24.990)

So was it like a class action? Like, or, oh, no, you said it was, but from the stakeholders or shareholders? So, Man, everybody wants a piece, dude. It’s insane. Sure.

Charity (19:44.389)

I know. There, I literally have like six articles pulled up and now I can’t remember, I can’t find the one. I don’t know. Investors lost $12 billion over 10 days after the tweets.

Herbert Anderson (20:46.690)

See? See? Now it’s right there.

Charity (20:49.469)

And now what’s right there? Look, so nine member panel from the San Francisco courtroom Friday afternoon, controversial tweets in 2018 were so misleading to investors, they violated security’s laws. This part was fun. It said, lawyers for the investors who sued called Musk a rich liar, fire-breathing dad.

Herbert Anderson (21:12.812)

Highlight it.

Charity (21:15.429)

I like it. A rich.

Herbert Anderson (21:16.157)


Charity (21:19.990)

Liar fire breathing dragon

Herbert Anderson (21:22.550)

Dang, he’s a fire breathing dragon. Wow. He’d appreciate that. You know, flamethrower and all. And he’s a fire breathing dragon. And he’s a fire breathing dragon.

Charity (21:31.969)

Thank you.

Charity (21:36.149)

Um, so it’s down here. It says, oh, see, this was the article with the 12 billion. And now I can.

Charity (21:50.189)

Maybe it wasn’t, maybe it’s the other one. Investors allegedly suffered big losses, but it was $12 billion in losses from the fluctuation in the stock prices. This also, I’m not in any way, shape, or form well-educated when it comes to the stock market, but as a, with that preface, when you are investing money

Charity (22:20.610)

companies where the person notoriously tweets as often as Elon Musk does.

Charity (22:28.889)

your stances to say that you are impacted by the tweets? Like of course you were, everybody is all the time.

Herbert Anderson (22:40.110)

Yeah, but let’s not forget the first amendment, right? Like

Charity (22:44.009)

Right, no, I’m not saying I’m not saying First Amendment or not. It’s like, hey, that person is a really big gossip and then they gossiped about me. So now I’m hurt. You knew that when they you started this. I don’t know.

Herbert Anderson (22:59.470)

Yes, but I think that’s where it gets weird for me because yes, he’s he’s he’s he has a fiduciary responsibility to the organization, but he also is an individual that has an opinion. So as he is he to be punished to share his opinion because of his professional status? I’m

Charity (23:20.829)

Well, and again, I think that that’s what the entire pile was about.

Herbert Anderson (23:24.290)

You know what I mean? Right. But that’s where that’s where it gets a little bit weird for me. Now to say that it doesn’t impact is also naive, right? Because it does, of course, if he’s at the helm of this, what he says is going to have an impact whether positive or negative on on on public opinion. And that’s going to drive, you know, that could potentially positively or negatively impact stock prices. But where’s the

Charity (23:36.350)

Right, which is what I’m saying.

Herbert Anderson (23:54.270)

line, where does he stop being Elon Musk, the CEO, and he’s Elon Musk, the individual who has an opinion and wants to comment on things. You know what I mean? So that’s where it gets weird for me. When you’re like, I mean, not to get political here, but you know, the same thing that happened with the former President Trump, like, you know, like he would, for whatever, you know, I’m not, you know, this is kind of a weird line. So I want to stay as neutral as possible. But the things that he that

he would say in his tweets, I mean, I get it. He’s the president and all that stuff. I understand all that, but he’s still a man. He still has an opinion. He’s still in, so everybody can go on these platforms and share their opinion. But if you’re a CEO or if you’re a president, you can. Like, I don’t, you know what I mean? I don’t know

Charity (24:38.649)

Well, so one of the articles that I read had said something to the effect of, you know, he doesn’t get to have of to give it. He doesn’t get to be treated differently because he’s a billionaire. And

Charity (24:56.229)

You have, in my opinion, when you are that big, like Trump or Musk or any of them, there is a very, very, very fine line between personal and professional life. And you have to be aware of the fact that what you’re saying publicly absolutely impacts

Charity (25:25.749)

economies like

Herbert Anderson (25:29.330)

Yes, I’m not disagreeing with that, but there is a, there is, I mean, these are all new things because social media and these platforms, it’s not like they’ve been around for many generations, right? This is all new for everybody.

Charity (25:30.009)

who has to know that.

Charity (25:42.609)

Yeah, but it’s also not like Elon Musk doesn’t hire people to help him know what to say online. I mean Adele has people that tell her what to say online and she’s done it.

Herbert Anderson (25:48.791)

We don’t know that.

Herbert Anderson (25:52.790)

But we don’t know that. Maybe he doesn’t. Maybe he answers all his tweets himself. I don’t know. You know what I mean? So my point is that because this is all new, and we’re users of the technology, right? So I feel like there’s partially responsibility from people that are utilizing the platforms, but at the same time, you can’t expect this high

Herbert Anderson (26:22.910)

I don’t know threshold or this high expectation when you know to Sensor yourself, you know what I mean because you’re still

Charity (26:33.029)

And I think that there is, I would not be surprised if there was case law out there that disagreed with you.

Herbert Anderson (26:41.950)

Well, I’m sure there is and that’s my point. We don’t know what this is. So, okay, so these platforms are there for you to express yourself and for you to voice your opinion. But if you’re in a certain status or in a certain position, then you’re excluded from using the platforms. You know what I’m saying? Like it just seems weird. Like if they’re there for you to voice your opinion and say what you wanna say, then say what you wanna say, right? That’s right. Yeah, so… So…

Charity (27:01.389)

I’m just gonna leave it here for you guys to see.

Charity (27:07.809)

Okay, so I think we’ve got two different things going on. One, being excluded from using a platform is not what we’re talking about right now. And as since these are

Charity (27:21.669)

Are they private companies? Is Twitter a private company? No, it’s not a private company. It’s a public.

Herbert Anderson (27:25.650)

I don’t public, yeah.

Charity (27:29.269)

So, okay, so.

Herbert Anderson (27:30.750)

But wait, you’re saying that I’m not confusing things. We’re not talking about two different things. We’re talking about the same exact thing. My point is that just because you’re a CEO of a company shouldn’t exclude you from using the platforms. Yes, what you say matters, and yes, what you say is gonna have an impact, but you’re still an individual. It’s not like you’re on Twitter CEO, you’re on Twitter, man. You know what I mean? You say what you wanna say, just like anybody else on the planet. That’s what the platform is there to do.

Charity (27:57.509)

Yeah, and it’s like anybody else on the planet who has to suffer the consequences of what they’re saying, impacting things. What I say impacts my life and might impact the lives of the people around me, but I don’t have the influence that Elon Musk has. So what he says doesn’t just impact him and the people around him, it impacts everyone. And he has, absolutely has a responsibility to be a part of that.

Herbert Anderson (28:22.950)

But is that, I get it, I get that, but is it fair? Is it fair? That’s my point. Is it fair? That’s the thing, right? I don’t know. And again, there’s no precedence here. There’s no, I understand that, you know, with certain level of professional achievement or whatever, yes, what you say matters and is impactful, not just to yourself or your circle, beyond that. But is it fair? You know what I mean? Is it fair for people like him to censor themselves and not say what they really want to say because of, you know what I mean? The platform is there for a reason. That’s what it’s used for. Anybody else can go and use it that way, but people like him can’t. And that’s just, it doesn’t make sense.

Charity (29:12.409)

Well, okay, two things. One.

Charity (29:16.469)

fair, I know it’s the hell out of me, to, yeah, I don’t think it’s a matter of it being fair or not. It’s a reality that you have a responsibility at that level to be careful of what you say. However, I also think that it is extremely dangerous to censor people who have the ability to impact so much. Because they

Charity (29:47.309)

for better or worse they see the world entirely different than the rest of us and that gives them the ability to problem-solve in ways that most of us don’t know how to do and they should have the ability to say that kind of stuff online without fear of reproach or lawsuit.

Herbert Anderson (30:07.350)

not and yeah, I’m not just that, but it exposes them to maybe they are unfit or unqualified for the position. Right. So it exposes them to a certain degree. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing. I just I’m not comfortable with the fact that in the more I’m we’re talking about it, the more it becomes clear in my mind that I’m not comfortable with the fact that there’s these underline or

Charity (30:15.791)


Herbert Anderson (30:35.494)


Charity (30:37.529)

Yeah, but you also have to remember that, and this is a little bit political, but freedom of speech isn’t as free as you think it is. Like everybody’s like, well, I have the right to free speech, except if you’re like propagating hate or propagating violence or convincing people to go do violent acts or speaking out against the government, really, really strongly, like saying that you’re gonna kill a president or something.

Herbert Anderson (31:07.430)

Uh oh. Uh oh. Uh oh.

Charity (31:07.469)

Freedom of speech is, I know. So NSA, that’s listening to us right now. We’re just discussing.

Herbert Anderson (31:17.690)

We’re just, we’re having debate. There’s no, what are you saying, man? Watch, shut down, YouTube channel, shut down.

Charity (31:24.816)

Ha ha.

Charity (31:32.012)

So, about subscribing to the YouTube channel.

Herbert Anderson (31:35.410)

Um, no, I mean, I, I, I get it. And we got to get Scott in here before he bounces, but, um, it’s, it’s good topic. Leave your comments, make, put a question in the show notes, leave your comments. Do you, what do you guys think about this little debate about social media usage and let us know what you, what your thoughts are. Anyway, without further ado, let’s get Scott Allen on the show.

Herbert Anderson (32:02.050)

What’s up Scott? How you doing? Welcome. Alrighty, so we kick things off with an intro so tell us about you

Scott Allen (32:22.160)

Um, I guess I’m a born and raised Texan here in Fort Worth, Texas. Um, I went to school, uh, here locally, uh, went to Texas tech university, uh, was a stock broker for about seven years. Uh, and then got into the, uh, used car business in 1991, uh, as a buy here, pay here dealer. And, uh, here we are 32 years later, uh, still doing the same thing. Uh, and, uh, really loving it. I mean,

spend my life for the last 30-some odd years.

Herbert Anderson (32:55.590)

Very cool, very cool. Did you make it to NADA?

Scott Allen (32:59.760)

In ADAS, I was actually there at NADA last weekend in Dallas for a few minutes and they were so gracious to give us a room We actually had a NIADA meeting right there at NADA in Dallas for with some of our industry partners For a CPO program that we’re launching. So yeah, I was there for a day and it was man It was really neat to see it was just amazing how large it is

Herbert Anderson (33:24.730)

Yeah, very cool. We’re in Vegas, well I’m in Vegas and it was nice to have the show in a different place, us having to actually travel there for a change instead of just driving from from our house.

Scott Allen (33:38.680)

Well, you got out of here just before the ice storm. Yeah.

Herbert Anderson (33:43.570)

Yeah, yeah, I heard I heard yesterday that some people got stranded there and they haven’t been able to leave and stuff like it’s been crazy. So, um, so, and you’re the president of the board, right?

Scott Allen (33:57.400)

That’s correct for NIADA, currently serving till since last year for one year.

Herbert Anderson (34:03.450)

Right on. So Scott, there’s been, we’re very excited to have this opportunity. This whole season is dedicated to NIADA and it’s been a great partnership. And we’re very excited to start getting these episodes out there and sharing with, with our community. But there seems to be a lot of changes, a lot of new people coming in. You guys got a new CEO. Tell us a little bit about the, the overall goal and what you, what the vision is.

Scott Allen (34:33.300)

Oh my gosh, what a loaded question. That might take us all day to get through that one. Jeez. Yeah, well, I’ll try to do my very best. Yeah, there are a lot of things going on. Yes, we did have a CEO recently retire. And we have an interim CEO in Melanie, who was our CFO. We are moving full steam ahead. A lot of people are wondering, you

Charity (34:35.589)

Thank you.

Herbert Anderson (34:40.262)

Give us the condensed version.

Charity (34:40.969)

Thank you. Thank you.

Herbert Anderson (34:56.772)


Scott Allen (35:03.560)

you know how things are going on you know hold what’s going on. No the vision’s clear I mean you know where the board has got some initiatives of a lot of different great things that we’ve been working on for our dealer members you know and we we do that with support of our interested partners and our states and it’s a it’s a big group that helps contribute to what we try to do for our independent dealers.

Herbert Anderson (35:32.150)

Right on. So, let’s talk about, you know, it’s a new year, 2023, right? What and we’ve been through a roller coaster for the past couple of years. No question about that. What do you think? What are you guys, what are you envisioning for 2023? Challenges and opportunities.

Scott Allen (35:45.521)


Scott Allen (35:53.480)

Well, I think they’re kind of too solid for me. Myself, I’m a by-and-by-here dealer, and I think we see a lot of opportunity because the interest rates rising, rising like they are, the availability of credit to consumers is gonna be much more difficult, I think in the short term. And so that means, I could be a heyday for some

Herbert Anderson (36:16.150)


Scott Allen (36:23.400)

buy here, pay here dealers who are still open and still available for those who need that subprime level credit to get under their, get their cars and get on the road and live their lives. So I think we’ll be, I think we’re looking forward to 23, even maybe going into 24 for the retail, with the time and credit and the cost of capital and all those kinds of things. And if you’re leveraged, it’s extremely difficult times right now for some of those.

Herbert Anderson (36:53.292)


Scott Allen (36:53.940)

in the very higher end of the segment of automobile bills, it’s recently dropped significantly over the last few months, just over in the upper end of cars, 20 up to 23, 19 in that range. And some of the banks are calling in because of that quick drop. They’re calling for to meet covenants and things because of, so it’s gonna be a difficult year for some,

on their financing opportunities. But we’re launching a new program, just got it off the ground in the beginning of this year for that hopefully will help our retail dealers in a big way as well.

Herbert Anderson (37:38.571)

Is that the certification program?

Scott Allen (37:40.760)

Yeah, that’s exactly that’s the the CPO. Yep. And it’s it’s a tremendous program that’s really never been done before. It was was designed by dealers and it’s made for dealers. And we really think it’s going to be one of the something’s going to really help our retail dealers in the coming year, you know, help them stand out, sell a better quality car and and actually be able to maybe

Herbert Anderson (37:43.350)


Scott Allen (38:10.700)

make a little extra money on it because of that, because they’re actually putting that kind of product out.

Herbert Anderson (38:13.092)


Herbert Anderson (38:15.650)

for sure. No, we were talking about this yesterday with our guest, we had Ed, yeah. And yeah. And one of the things that we brought up in that conversation was the fact that, you know, it’s a differentiator. Something new that is gonna be available to the independent dealers to compete, right? In having that certification is something that, I think it’s kind of cool, man.

Charity (38:20.209)

Ben Billen Ed.

Scott Allen (38:21.820)

Oh God, well you had the experts there. Yeah.

Herbert Anderson (38:45.730)

give the independent dealer an opportunity to, like you said, get a better quality unit out there. And that’s, that’s, it’s a benefit to the consumer ultimately, which is, which is great.

Scott Allen (38:57.060)

Every time we can have a win-win, that’s what we’re looking for. And that’s what we hope to continue to do. We’re trying to continue to pull our industry together because it’s uncertain times. We’ve, like you said, we felt them for a while and we’re still kind of feeling them, not exactly sure how this is gonna turn out in the 2023 with a lot of changes. So, but by that same token, there’s a lot of opportunity as well and we just have to recognize that.

Herbert Anderson (39:22.792)


Scott Allen (39:26.880)

to be nimble and you know I’m small, I’m a small dealer so I can react a little bit quicker I think in that aspect so just got to keep your eyes wide open and yeah go ahead.

Herbert Anderson (39:39.970)

For sure. You know, one of the things I was thinking about this yesterday after our conversation with them, because I’ve been really intrigued by this program. I used to work for Cox Automotive and when during my time there, KBV was looking at doing a certification program and we actually piloted here at one of the independent dealers here in the Las Vegas area. For some reason, they ended up killing the program and never did, but I always thought that that would be something cool to be able to offer our dealer customers. And I was thinking about this yesterday a lot. Like, I think one of the extra benefits, or maybe the underlying benefits of this program that we haven’t really thought of, is the stigma, what it’s going to do to the reputation of the dealers, right? Because this program is going to not force, but it’s going to encourage dealers to put a better quality unit out on the road. And that’s going to help with some of these bad perceptions that consumers have with dealerships in general. So I think it’s something that’s going to benefit. the community as a whole. And I’m really, really excited for this to, to kind of kick off, be out there and become something that is recognized by the consumer. You know what I mean? Like ultimately, they know that, hey, if your vehicle has this badge or however you guys are presenting it to the public, then you know that this is a car that’s been through, through a rigorous process. And you know, you’re getting a better quality car.

Scott Allen (41:05.440)

Yeah, man, I don’t think you could have said it any better. I could have said that any better. But I’ll just say that one of the things that makes this thing unique is, you know, some of those interest industry partners that we’ve all brought together that are collaborating together and make this happen. Number one, there are four administrators for the warranties that you can choose from. And we may be able to add others to that instead of just one. There are there’s a platform for transparency, just like you just talked about with consumer that’s a digital inspection that can be shared digitally online as well about how this car was reconditioned, how it was brought up to the standards that it is today on you know and ready for sale. So again I agree with all those things. I mean the way we have the Technic shops a portion of it which makes 15 I think it’s 1500 shops around the canoes 15,000

Herbert Anderson (41:40.981)


Scott Allen (42:05.400)

around, I’m not the expert in all of this, but the the technical shops around the country that can help service these cars, bring those up to standards, and that carcata program is what really makes it stand out with that transparency of how that, what really is happening in this multi-point inspection, you know, and what is really covered and what has changed and what work was done on this car and all being transparent showing photos, videos, all of that portion that the consumer can see. So yeah, it’s just, it’s,

Herbert Anderson (42:31.213)


Scott Allen (42:35.300)

It’s been completely reimagined. It’s a really great thing. And looking forward to our dealers being able to participate in it as quickly as possible. It’s ready to go right now. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Herbert Anderson (42:45.550)

That’s awesome. Yeah, we’re putting links to the PDF and the show notes of all the episodes so that anybody listening to this that wants to get some more information on it, they can just click it and download it. The other thing that that brings up is, and I wanted to get your perspective on this, I totally had this question yesterday in my mind and it slipped, but I’m seeing this as I want to say, innovative thinking. And something that’s going to…

Charity (42:51.174)

as well.

Herbert Anderson (43:16.110)

I can’t see it only benefiting. I can’t see any downsides to this What about use car leasing is that something that’s on the on the roadmap? I’ve talked often times on the show about that I think that that’s something that is also Missing I don’t know just you know, what are your thoughts on that? Do you think that that’s something that could potentially be in the future?

Scott Allen (43:36.500)

Thank you. Thank you.

Scott Allen (43:40.740)

It’s already happening here actually at the what I would call the especially at my level the buy here pay here we also have the lease here pay here dealers and It has grown a lot. Yeah, it’s grown a lot over the last several years It’s even a better option in my state, which it wasn’t 15 years ago as as you know some laws have changed some things have made it so it’s much more attractive now even in my state so

Charity (43:49.569)

Thank you.

Herbert Anderson (43:50.232)

All right on.

Scott Allen (44:10.440)

largest dealers and are very active in our committees and with the board are lease here paying your dealers. So it is growing portion of that segment. I think it’s also going to be a growing portion of the leasing, I mean of the retail segment as well because I just see that as another thing besides all the other facets of the business those, including service and all you know that can benefit

consumer and a dealer, but especially leasing is something new. It’s not new at all. It’s been around forever, but in the independent space, it’s much more an accepted practice. And now, I mean, it’s really getting that message off the consumer that you can lease this used car too and save money, you know.

Herbert Anderson (44:56.370)

Yeah, I thought for COVID that would have been a great alternative for customers. Like, hey, we know we don’t have the car that you want right now or whatever because of inventory. But why don’t you lease this car until we find the car that you want? And that way, you know what I mean? I don’t know. I just thought that that could be a, an extra way for dealers to, to make some cash and, you know, put some of these units out on the road and then give yourself some time to, to find that car, that, that car that the customer really, really wants. You know, I don’t know. I just, I, I like the, the, the.

Herbert Anderson (45:27.810)

To me, it’s very attractive, the premise of options. Give the consumer as many options as possible that secures you as a business and at the same time it gives the customer more opportunities to get into what they want, right? And I think that there’s been some restrictions when it comes to that. And I know there’s legalities and all that stuff in here. It’s not like you can just say, okay, we’re going to do this, but I don’t know. I think we’re in a place technology-wise and just as a community where these things should

Herbert Anderson (45:56.956)

our potential customers.

Scott Allen (45:58.783)

Oh, I think so.

Charity (45:59.149)

One of the things that Ben Bill and Ed said yesterday, that or on our last episode, struck me, not even it was yesterday, struck me and I’ve been mulling it over since because it just blew my mind, was that they’re seeing more like 680s being rejected at the franchise dealers and them having to come to the buy here pay hairs and the independent dealers in order to get

Herbert Anderson (46:06.210)

which was yesterday.

Charity (46:29.689)

funded and if you’ve got, that’s me, like I’m in that threshold so and I just bought a car so I was like whoa and if one of the problems with that is that you’re not you don’t have on the independent side there were no certified vehicles or there’s no leasing options or any of those things then you’re taking these people who were anticipating having these

options and then all of a sudden they feel like they can’t. And so what you guys are doing is offering, I imagine that it creates a long-term customer base that essentially just got rejected by the bigger dealerships and now they’re coming to the independent dealers and they’re like, oh yeah, we’ll take care of you. And that sounds like a really great way to hold on to a customer for a long time, in my opinion.

Scott Allen (47:28.220)

I completely agree, absolutely 100%. And as I mentioned, I could give you a couple of great lease your pay here dealers right now. And again, I’ve seen that in my business too, because I will take a credit score all the way down into the below 500, like say 480. And my typical customer used to be 15 years ago,

Scott Allen (47:58.160)

a 550 to 560 and that’s kind of where it is now. Come back to. Anyway, I also have customers that are in the 700s that come by car for me too. They just like the program. They like the cars that I have, they like the cross-range that I keep and they like the short-term financing and because they usually have decent credit we can certainly work out an excellent deal for them as well too in-house. So they do, they trust me and I’m in the community. Everybody knows

Charity (48:10.611)


Herbert Anderson (48:12.371)


Charity (48:24.030)

And I trust you.

Herbert Anderson (48:24.050)


Charity (48:27.269)

Thank you.

Scott Allen (48:28.180)

I’ve been involved in my community for the whole time I’ve been here. I’ve been here for 30 years. So, you know, I’ve been involved with the city. I do things I can for the community, my church, you know, the NIDA, the independent auto dealer. And every chance I get, we used to have a group here. We still have a group here in Fort Worth. It meets called Fort Worth Independent Auto Dealers. So, a 30 to 50 dealers. So, you know, it’s just a part of being a community to me. And then

That’s where you really get your reputation from besides the way you treat customers and You know where it gets around and so I am Yeah, it’s all referral business for me basically You know the advertising budget is word of mouth and what a little bit of social media that we could do That’s it for because I’m a small dealer, you know selling about 25 cars a month and but we You know, we’ve been successful for

Herbert Anderson (49:06.471)


Scott Allen (49:28.220)

35 years and it’s been a great you know success for my family as well so anyway thank you

Herbert Anderson (49:35.350)

is one of the as one of the side benefits or I don’t know if benefits is the right word, but one of the objectives should be in my opinion, I don’t know, I want to get your perspective on this guy. But to get those customers to a point where their credit is transferable, if they wanted to buy a brand new car, and they you know what I mean, like they can kind of graduate themselves.

Scott Allen (49:36.400)

Thank you.

Scott Allen (49:55.960)

You are so speaking my language. You are so speaking my language. The way I would call it is graduate. That’s what they do. They graduate from Auto Land. They come to me because for whatever reason, there’s a lot of things that can happen in a person’s life that brings them to Auto Land. We treat them just like anyone with respect and like a family member. I mean, that is the key. It’s all about relationships.

Charity (49:59.369)

Thank you. Bye.

Herbert Anderson (50:25.792)


Scott Allen (50:25.940)

straight down to it, especially in my business. And so they graduate, I hate to see them go, but they come back. They do, they come back for their kids. I’m seeing third generation now. They also want that truck or extra vehicle for whatever reason, and they know the kind of cars that I carry. They know the price range it’s gonna be in. They know how easy the terms are gonna be. And so they come back, but they do.

Herbert Anderson (50:35.371)


Herbert Anderson (50:39.171)


Scott Allen (50:56.240)

I have one in particular, I’ll tell you a really quick story, that a person from me in the late 1990s was living, you know, had just moved here, divorced, a lot of things had impacted his life. He really didn’t really, he had just moved to a weekly motel, you know, and was trying to get back on his feet. We sold him a truck that he actually, I think slept in for about two weeks, you know, to get him back on his feet.

Scott Allen (51:26.540)

I had a job anyway. The long story short, he drives by 20 years later and shows me his Harley, and brand new Harley that he bought, and every time he comes in, which still is not as often as used to be, but it’s at least twice a year, he pops in, just say, man, I wanna thank you again, check it out, this is what I’m doing now. You know, it’s just, it’s a process, it really is.

Herbert Anderson (51:53.292)


Herbert Anderson (51:56.210)

That’s what it should be about, man. It’s, you know, I know it’s almost cliche to say it, but it’s people helping people and, you know what I mean? Like getting them into better places. So, you know, that’s, I’ve been asking this question to all the guests and, you know, but this is a perfect segue, but how can we, what do you think are some of the things that could bridge between the independent and the franchise dealers? Like what’s the connection there?

Scott Allen (52:03.388)


Charity (52:04.011)

Thank you. Thank you.

Scott Allen (52:22.620)

There already is a connection there. We worked hard, I think, several years back as we put together our policy conference in Washington, DC, and began having our own lobby day there, which has been going on now for maybe a little better, in eight years, or around seven or eight years. And we have partnered sometimes with NADA when it lines up, when it comes to legislation. We’re in touch with NAAA.

Scott Allen (52:53.540)

which is the auctions, I mean, you know, several other industry partners tied to the independent space and we do share information when there’s a chance for us now to collaborate or to work together on a project. We look to do that. I mean, we’re not always going to be looking at the same things. We’re still operating in really just two completely different spaces sort of except for there, we’re both in the news card market and compete sort of there in a

Herbert Anderson (53:15.450)

Thank you. Thank you.

Scott Allen (53:22.660)

way with even the franchise dealers. But we have franchise dealers who come to our show, I mean, and join our association for that use card side of it too. So, I mean, I just think there’s always a way to collaborate and work together when those things can align and we can agree that it’s something that benefits or we can both, it’s a win-win. And so, yeah, I see that already sort of happening. I hope that we can take that to, you know, a better level, continue to grow with that.

Herbert Anderson (53:34.816)


Herbert Anderson (53:53.970)

Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, again, I’m attracted to competition. I think that’s healthy. That’s, that’s, you know, that’s capitalism. And that’s that helps everybody. So it’s good. And it’s good to see those independent dealers. I mean, look at car max, look at the the the the the people that the, you know, it’s not you’re not limited because you’re an independent dealer, like you can take this thing all the way, right? So

Charity (53:54.391)

Thank you. Thank you.

Scott Allen (54:03.180)

Oh yeah, absolutely.

Charity (54:06.191)

Thank you.

Herbert Anderson (54:23.950)

Again, I’m a big believer in our industry and that competition makes everybody better. You know what I mean? It forces independence to get better and it forces other independent dealers that see that, you know, those stores that are doing it well, it forces them to step up their game too. And that ultimately again, goes back to the consumer, benefits the consumer. So it’s just, it’s good. So.

Charity (54:42.991)

Thank you. Thank you.

Scott Allen (54:48.440)

Oh, it’s absolutely, I mean, that’s what we’re…

Herbert Anderson (54:50.430)

Anyways, I’ve been you mentioned you were a stock broker, I’m interested to get your thoughts on what’s going on with Carvana, man. What is the deal? Can you explain to me why the stock is at $14 right now? I don’t get it. I’m so I’m mathematically confused with with what’s happening.

Scott Allen (55:11.040)

Yeah, you know, it’s, yeah, you know, it’s a, I know it’s a, that’s a bear, really. And I certainly don’t have the answer for you there. I do watch it, I’ll explain quite a bit.

Charity (55:14.192)

Ha ha ha!

Charity (55:25.912)

Thank you. Bye.

Herbert Anderson (55:27.031)

But do you think bankruptcy or do you think they’re gonna pull this thing off? Like what are your thoughts?

Scott Allen (55:31.580)

Man, it just depends on the money flow because it just seemed like they had an endless supply, to be quite honest with you, the way they talk, the way they, you know, promote it from the beginning. And I don’t know how deep those pockets are. And are they going to reorganize, maybe even a different name? Maybe, you know, I don’t know, but man, I tell you, I think the, for now, the day of the vending machine, that may be over.

Herbert Anderson (55:35.616)


Herbert Anderson (55:38.675)

I know.

Herbert Anderson (55:56.530)

Yeah, yeah, I know I like I keep saying this, but the smartest dumbest thing they did was by a desa. So at least they have a that gives them a lot of leverage and opportunity, but we’ll see. We’ll see what happens.

Scott Allen (55:57.305)

I don’t know.

Scott Allen (56:07.100)

Yeah, maybe that was one of the smart things they did with their money. I’m not sure. But yeah, it’s, you know, that would be definitely a risky play, you know. You know, probably I’d say less than 1% of your portfolio, you know, if you wanted to try that play for a rebound or reorganization at $14, it could still be a short. I’m not sure, you know. So

Herbert Anderson (56:29.990)

Well, if you bought it, if you bought it two weeks ago, it was like three bucks. So if you put some money into then, you’re you’re, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re pretty solid right now. So we’ll see. But yeah, exactly. So anyway, Scott, thank you so much for doing this man, I really appreciate it. There is one question that we ask everybody that comes on the show. And that question is, where do you see the automotive industry headed in the next five years and what?

Scott Allen (56:33.825)


Charity (56:34.411)

Ha ha ha.

Scott Allen (56:37.421)


Scott Allen (56:41.444)

You might want to get out though quick. Yeah, I don’t know.

Scott Allen (57:01.720)

Obviously the introduction of the hybrid and EVs is going to be the next, you know, see how that progresses over the next five years for me, especially being an independent dealer. You know, what happens? Is there an infrastructure within five years for something more like that? I think I’m really interested in finding out how that turns out.

Scott Allen (57:25.920)

Other than that, man, I think it’s still, the American public is gonna drive cars, cars are freedom, you know, that’s our way to get in places and see things that we wouldn’t normally see. And so they’re gonna be a big part of our lives, no matter what five years, 10 years, for my foreseeable future. So I think we’ll always find a way to adapt. I think we’ll always find a way to deliver transportation to the public, because we love doing it, we know how much they love it.

it and because it’s a lot of fun too so anyway thank you guys so much too I really really superly appreciate the time it was absolutely delight you know I hope I didn’t I hope I’ll be invited back someday and we can do this. Right.

Herbert Anderson (58:01.171)

Right on.

Charity (58:03.491)

Thank you.

Charity (58:12.073)


Herbert Anderson (58:13.850)

Absolutely for sure. So it’s we’re gonna put it in their record Scott Allen part two is gonna happen in the future So we’re gonna we’re gonna have them back for another episode

Scott Allen (58:20.300)

Thank you. Bye.

Scott Allen (58:24.220)

Well, y’all were delightful and I appreciate the time. Thank you very much.

Charity (58:25.391)

Thank you. Bye.

Herbert Anderson (58:29.010)

Right on. Well, there you go, folks. Scott Allen, president of the board of NIADA. That’s all the time that we have for today. Thank you so much for tuning in, and as usual, we’ll talk later